Curse

PieXags · Jul 02, 2005, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Alright, basically the more I party with warriors the more I look at them as simply meat shields/tanks. I rarely ever look at them as damage dealers anymore. In PvP a warrior's damage only really seems to be anything special against casters, if they're fighting another warrior or even a ranger it doesn't really do much at all. In fact I'd have to say if you added up the damage my ranger did during the match it'd problably outmatch the damage of the warrior.

Now obviously this depends on the warriors build, there are some builds out there that can really pump up the damage, but I rarely, if ever, see a warrior using them. Mostly just a bunch of W/Mo, and those aren't really anything special.

I notice in a lot more in PvE though (since in PvP all warriors do is go murder the casters, which my ranger is equally efficient at). In the shiverpeaks in a mission I asked the warriors in my party how much damage they were doing, it was like 9-15 per hit. My rangers arrows did more damage than that. And when using a skill or preparation, I still outdamaged them. Sure our rate of fire is slower than a sword/axe warrior, but using a half moon you can get in as many hits as a hammer warrior typically.

Now, I used to specialize in conditions but now I switched my secondary to an elementalist, and using fiery bow strings on my bows, mark of rodgort, conjure flame, and kindle arrows I can put out some pretty damn good damage. In PvP it's typically like 60-80 damage per hit against casters, at least, and about 40-50 on warriors. And with the constant being on fire part, it really works out nicely.

I was just wondering what other rangers thought. I even switched to a warrior and maxed out my axe mastery just to test it out, and I wasn't doing as much damage as my ranger could.

What are you peoples general experiences? Even in the UW/Fissure, blade ataxes hardly get injured, even when 3 warriors are on him, but my ranger can widdle them down quite nicely. (Just so long as they're not trying to murder ME)

I just thought I'd post this and see what peoples thoughts were. Is it common for rangers to have a higher damage output than warriors? Is it rare that rangers make a high-damage build, or do warriors just never do it either?

Genos · Jul 02, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

i have a smimilar build, excpet pure ranger based, with physical damge as its main means of dealing pain - but warriros mostly still seem to do decent dps to me.

Anthalas Woodshadow · Jul 02, 2005, 10:41 AM // 10:41

I think it really depends on what you are shooting at. I use different bows for different occasions, I actually have all 5 of my weapon slots filled with bows, 1 normal damage bow (being a shortbow) and one for each element (varying bows by use) and I find that by exploring each bow I can use one that is right for the situation (IE one that does max damage) (PvE) and when damage is not a concern, I have one that shoots fast or one with obscene range, or one that is more accurate (for shooting the fleeing warrior with pin dow (PvP)

I find that the ranger does not do as much damage over time as a warrior (even if the warrior generally does less damage, which is untrue [I also have a warrior]) A ranger's strength is in the number of annoying conditions you can lay on an enemy (PvE or PvP) and my favorites are cripple, poison, and bleeding, and the ability to interrupt that make it effective.

If you're looking at an all ranger build, I can share the one I use:
Expertise at 10 + 2(mask and rune)
Marksmanship at 11 + 1 (rune)
Wilderness Survival 10 + 1 (rune)
Rune of vigor

I actually use studded leather in pvp to ward off the air mages wrath and a long range bow.

Pin down
Hunter's shot
Poison arrow
Distracting shot
Lightning reflexes/whirling defense/storm chaser
Throw dirt
Troll unguent
Res signet

When the arena begins or when you are pulling a monster, pick the melee types in the group. Hit them with pin down followed by hunter's shot, and poison arrow. You've taken the warrior out of the fight for a moment (enough time to take out the healer if your group is smart) Save your interrupt for when the warrior tries to remove his conditions... (thats when I usually get cussed at)

hope this helps you ranger dudes.

Enigmatics · Jul 02, 2005, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Warriors have much faster attack rates. It balences out -in the end of one minute, you'll find a warrior does more average damage (courtesy of a table made by ensign).
I'm not sure exactly what type of bow this was tested on, but no bow matches the speed of a sword or axe. Halfmoons/shortbows come close.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 03, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

This is a rather biased and unfounded argument.

Weaken Armor + Thrill of Victory = 130 dmg to a retreating castor's spine

And don't say Remove Hex + blind ok? Everything in the game can be countered so counter-arguments are just noobish...

ANY CLASS can deal an unimaginable amount of damage with the right team and skill set.

for example

7+1 str
9+1 tactics
10+2 axe
10 curses

Penetrating Blow
Disrupting Chop
Executioner's Strike
Thrill of Victory
Battle Rage {E}
Weaken Armor
Barbs
Plague Touch

If you're fighting a caster, well, if u read what these skills can do, I'm sure you'll know what pain means ^_^

immolatus · Jul 03, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Like it was said before it all depends on what you are up against. My Elementalist sometimes gets pummeled by one warrior, other times i've been able to take on 3 warriors at the same time and kill them in less than 20 seconds. It all depends on what you are up against. Use an Elementalist with air and earth primary and use obsidian flame, crystal wave and lightning surge. In less than 3 seconds he can dish out more than 200 dmg. Of course in the course of a minute the warrior will definatly do more dmg, but if you are one on one against someone the fight will almost never last more than 20 seconds. If it does then they are probably doing about same ammount of healing and same amount of dmg.

PieXags · Jul 03, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

This is a rather biased and unfounded argument.

I wasn't arguing anything, I simply asked what other peoples general experiences were. I never said warriors couldn't put out a crapload of damage, I ran into a warrior monk the other day with some smiting and he nailed me pretty hard. I simply was curious if other people had noticed that the warriors in their groups maybe weren't doing the damage they all say they can do.

Any class can put out some good damage if built correctly I'd have to say. I just in general noticed that the warriors I'd partied with all wanted to be self reliant and they never went for a build of any sort, most of them just said "hey this is a good skill" and throw it into their skill bar, as a whole putting out minimal damage, which as a whole has influenced my opinion of most of the warriors out there---meat shields. Whenever I party with warriors now, I never expect them to be able to the damage, I just expect them to keep them from hitting the casters.

It almost makes me mad because warriors have great potential for doing a lot of damage, but I rarely see someone using this potential in a good build, if you know what I mean.

Problably like a lot of rangers though. A lot of people used to think rangers sucked because of how many sucky rangers there are out there. It's not that they can't be good, just that there are a lot of...not so good ones out there 'eh?

AadiD · Jul 03, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

My ranger is a spike damage build and I do significantly more damage than any warrior I've seen. I can usually tear down anything other than a warrior in about 7 seconds (warriors take about 25 seconds because of armor) and I've never seen a warrior do anything like that. The hammer knockdown/aftershock combo is the closest I've seen to my damage.

That being said, warriors do alright when pounding on me, which is why I blind them.

Nightsky · Jul 03, 2005, 12:19 PM // 12:19

The problem with Warrior is that melee range is really gimped. Not only your target can run to avoid your attacks, but they can snare you to cancel your Hamstring/Sprint/whatever. So in the end, you lose a massive amount of damage over time, compare dto a Ranger, who can attack at range, for almost the same damage. Theres also the problems of Wards, who are the bane of all warriors. Unless you have Rigor Mortis, Wards will pretty much turn you harmless.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 03, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

I wasn't arguing anything, I simply asked what other peoples general experiences were. I never said warriors couldn't put out a crapload of damage, I ran into a warrior monk the other day with some smiting and he nailed me pretty hard. I simply was curious if other people had noticed that the warriors in their groups maybe weren't doing the damage they all say they can do.

Any class can put out some good damage if built correctly I'd have to say. I just in general noticed that the warriors I'd partied with all wanted to be self reliant and they never went for a build of any sort, most of them just said "hey this is a good skill" and throw it into their skill bar, as a whole putting out minimal damage, which as a whole has influenced my opinion of most of the warriors out there---meat shields. Whenever I party with warriors now, I never expect them to be able to the damage, I just expect them to keep them from hitting the casters.

It almost makes me mad because warriors have great potential for doing a lot of damage, but I rarely see someone using this potential in a good build, if you know what I mean.

Problably like a lot of rangers though. A lot of people used to think rangers sucked because of how many sucky rangers there are out there. It's not that they can't be good, just that there are a lot of...not so good ones out there 'eh?

Your original post said that they don't have good output damage and you only look at them as simply meatshields and tanks. What was I supposed to think? That you "liked" warrior damage at all?

Yeah, I've run into more people who make 'ah neat skill shiny!' skill bars than 'this skill will work with that skill so that this one gets stronger, ah an engine!' skill bar.

The Red Knight · Jul 03, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Yes your typical newb ass wa/mo that brings gladiators defence and endure pain to tombs has a pve mind set and thinks he or she will tank a entire team :/. These people are what make people think OMGUD WARRIORURZ ARE TEH WEAK they dont bring any condition removal and or anything for ward against melee. Rangers spike teams > air ele spike teams D:

My self im w/n +42 dmg eviscerate and a +42 dmg executioner strike 16 axe for the win and skills to augment my killing. Rigor mortis for wards and defile flesh to prevent healing and plague touch to transfer conditions

shady_knife · Jul 03, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

ima r/e barrage conjure ranger, frankly ppl don't really see my dmg i reckon, they don't notice me sitting up back, spamming the hell out of barrage..... but when you get 4 or 5 guys, and barrage is hittin em, thats when i go "ooooooo yeh" and i just poon em

SPARTACVS · Jul 03, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AadiD

My ranger is a spike damage build and I do significantly more damage than any warrior I've seen. I can usually tear down anything other than a warrior in about 7 seconds (warriors take about 25 seconds because of armor) and I've never seen a warrior do anything like that. The hammer knockdown/aftershock combo is the closest I've seen to my damage.

That being said, warriors do alright when pounding on me, which is why I blind them.

That's a assumption. I really like to have a draft of your built and I'm quite sure some warriors can post them so we will end up with the conclusion that both w and r can deal a very similar amount of damage.

sino-soviet · Jul 04, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

All I have to say is that a warrior/ele or even warrior/monk with the right build, such as using battle rage, can deal a considerable amount of damage. It simply seems as though they are more useful as tanks in pve.

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Knight

Yes your typical newb ass wa/mo that brings gladiators defence and endure pain to tombs has a pve mind set and thinks he or she will tank a entire team :/. These people are what make people think OMGUD WARRIORURZ ARE TEH WEAK they dont bring any condition removal and or anything for ward against melee. Rangers spike teams > air ele spike teams D:

My self im w/n +42 dmg eviscerate and a +42 dmg executioner strike 16 axe for the win and skills to augment my killing. Rigor mortis for wards and defile flesh to prevent healing and plague touch to transfer conditions

Air ele spike teams do around 1k damage to a given target in under 10 seconds. Ranger spike teams are more resillient, doing less spike damage, but not having to rest after taking down a target.

Queto · Aug 30, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I LOVE dealing damage, and I am now working on a Rodgort Ranger, like they call it. Now I have a Battle Rage build on my warrior, and someone above said that that build does the most damage. And yes it does. I can also disrupt my target every couple of seconds and cripple it

But I'm still looking for a way to heal myself good in 4vs4: Live Vicariously + Mending is good when you keep the enchantments one, but once removed, you die. Troll Unguent + Antidote Signet is good, but Troll Unguent has very long cast time. But then Antidote Signet can do away blind, the warriors worst enemy.
Now I'm looking to heal myself with Healing Signet, maybe that will work.

Racthoh · Aug 30, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightsky

The problem with Warrior is that melee range is really gimped. Not only your target can run to avoid your attacks, but they can snare you to cancel your Hamstring/Sprint/whatever. So in the end, you lose a massive amount of damage over time, compare dto a Ranger, who can attack at range, for almost the same damage. Theres also the problems of Wards, who are the bane of all warriors. Unless you have Rigor Mortis, Wards will pretty much turn you harmless.

A running target = 100% chance of critical hit for a warrior. Please run, I insist. I may not be getting in as many attacks but each one is at max damage.

Also, just strafing side to side is an effective way of rendering a ranger useless unless they're using Favourable Winds or Read the Wind to speed up the arrows. It just takes a little practice to get used to it.

Wards the bane to all warriors? So, arrows never miss an enemy in a ward? Would a ranger not need rigor mortis just as much as a warrior?

neoflame · Aug 30, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

So, arrows never miss an enemy in a ward?

Not unless they're physically dodging. Reread Ward Against Melee.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Rangers are better at sustaining DPS through wards. Nuff said.

Jake · Aug 30, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Ok I can tell you're full of speculation simply because of one comment.

Rangers have 70 armor vs physical, they're just about as squishy as casters are, warriors tear through them. The only profession that has a large difference in AL vs physical as opposed to the rest are warriors.